wtf is this shit all about? On our team I can think of two players right off hand...Fells and Grant...who will shoot midrange jumpers...but (with the exception of low post players) it seems guards and small forwards all around the college ball nation do one of two things to score:

- shoot a 3
- drive for a layup/dunk

all you college bball purists...please explain to me why the large majority of players do not shoot the midrange shot anymore? and obviously the 3pter is worth more which means you could come back from a deficit quicker, or extend a lead more quickly as well

am i alone in this? winning cures everything but to me it seems like the 10-18 footer has been damn near eliminated amongst most college players

the NBA has suffered similarly, but they still have old school shooters like juwon howard and the like who will just drill midrange shots

thoughts? comments?

1/25/2007 4:30:25 PM

that art was lost long ago.

1/25/2007 4:31:17 PM

Quote :

"old school shooters like juwon howard "

more like

Quote :

"old schoolshooters like juwon howard "

do you not remember him at Michigan? or with the Washington Bullets? That dude would try to jam any and everything he could.

basically, kids these days only practice what they see can get them to the next level (athleticsm and lang range shooting), hence the severe drop off in players who have high basketball IQ's.

Its not so much there fault as it is just a product of todays society.

Kudos to Rip Hamilton for sticking to his guns.

1/25/2007 4:34:38 PM

yeah rip is a helluva shooter midrange

hell dwyane wade is a great midrange shooter but he doesnt have a great 3pt shot so he's almost forced to...and other great players like kobe and ray allen dont have trouble

but i dunno...juwon was obviously better in his younger age but he always had the 10-12 baseline jumper

people like brevin knight and earl boykins can still knock down the midrange jumper...course with somebody like boykins at 5'5", you BETTER be able to shoot

1/25/2007 4:37:25 PM

Quote :

"course with somebody like boykins at 5'5", you BETTER be able to shoot"

just what I was thinking right before you said it.

1/25/2007 4:40:58 PM

Rip had the best mid-range jumper, both coming off of screens and off the dribble, I had ever seen at the college level. I remember all the Duke fans thinking he had the game of his life dropping 15-18 foot jumper after jumper over Brand coming out to help.. the reality was he did that every game against everyone.

1/25/2007 4:44:40 PM

Does it make sense to shoot the ball from 2-3 feet inside the three point line these days?

IMO not really. It's still not a high percentage shot, and not only that but you don't even get the possible payoff of 3 points.

I always cringe when I see someone shooting from like 2 feet inside the arc. Why wouldn't you just set up a little farther out and get a 3?

The NBA, with the 3 pt line being farther out is a little different, but the concept is the same.

1/25/2007 4:50:50 PM

Statistically, it probably makes more sense to either opt for the three or take it all the way to the whole. It's easier to get a shooter open at the three line than in the mid range jumper area.

[Edited on January 25, 2007 at 4:53 PM. Reason : ^ beat me to it]

1/25/2007 4:51:55 PM

^^ Well in college it's because the defense extends to defend the 3 a bit more. Pump fake and take a step in and you'll get an open look. I can't stand that most college kids would rather shoot the contested 3 over pumping and getting an open look from 2-3 ft closer..

^ not really. If you have fundamentally sound players I could argue it's easier to get open looks from 15-17... Coaches are so worried about the 3 ball in todays game they overextend the defense and it's easier to get that mid-range shot off..

[Edited on January 25, 2007 at 4:53 PM. Reason : ^,^^]

1/25/2007 4:52:10 PM

i'm with you, TreeTwista10

bring back the midrange jumper.

1/25/2007 4:53:53 PM

That doesn't make sense to me. If it were really that much of a better advantage or made more sense, all the great teams would be exploiting everyone on this. Not the random one of player here and there.

And I wouldn't call defending the three overextending unless you're talking about guys standing 1ft-2ft past the three point line. But if a team is that far out, you're typically going to be getting layups and stuff closer than mid range jumpers.

1/25/2007 4:55:28 PM

BRING BACK MORE PLAYERS LIKE MY MAN, DJ!!!



High Basketball IQ, and a mid range jumper to boot.

1/25/2007 4:55:40 PM

Quote :

"It's still not a high percentage shot, and not only that but you don't even get the possible payoff of 3 points."

That's how I see it, and I assume that's how coaches approach it too. Either take the high-percentage inside basket or go for the 3--and with the college 3-point line not being all that far out, the three is a major option.

There are definitely times when the midrange shot helps a lot, though, since defenses tend to key on the post and the perimeter.

1/25/2007 6:05:29 PM

I agree with DaveOT

Most of the time it looks like there is no reason to shoot it. There was a coach, can't for the life of me think of his name, that went on record as telling his kids if they were close just to take a step back and shoot the three....you are only sacrificing a couple of feet for a chance at an extra pt. every time down the floor that a guard shoots the ball; good tradeoff imo

however, i think the midrange jumper can and should be used by players with superior athleticism that can really elevate, aka fells. with his jumping ability he should be able to get off a 10-14 ft. jumper any time he wants it and w/ that much of a foot distance b/t say 12 ft. and 19'8" i think it is better to take more of the mid range variety

1/25/2007 6:17:50 PM

i'd take a shot in rhythm with a foot on the line instead of somebody stepping back if they could fuck up their timing, any day

Quote :

"If it were really that much of a better advantage or made more sense, all the great teams would be exploiting everyone on this. Not the random one of player here and there. "

i think its more that young players nowadays dont practice it...how are you going to exploit another team if all your players are out practicing 3's and layups?

1/25/2007 6:58:43 PM

since i watch unc more than any other team (i went there before you fuckers attack me), i'd say joe forte had a nice mid range game (and a pea for a brain, but that's another story), as does wayne ellington (the nice shot i mean)

1/25/2007 7:23:58 PM

WAY TO RUIN THIS THREAD

1/25/2007 7:32:54 PM

ben gordon has a pretty awesome midrange game when he's making shots

1/25/2007 7:36:38 PM

In college, the 3 point line is so close that it's worth more to try 3 point shots. In the NBA, it's a different story. Also, defenses help out less inside in the NBA.

1/25/2007 7:37:07 PM

Players are so big and athletic now that they can get from the 3 point line to the rim in 1 dribble.

Unless a team has a great shot blocker, there's no reason not to attack the rim unless you can consistently make the 15 footer

A layup or dunk is a higher percentage shot plus the chance of a foul

1/25/2007 8:05:26 PM

college 3 needs to move back. they also need to add a 4 point shot. This will fix the problem.

1/25/2007 8:07:53 PM

^^but players used to be able to shoot, and the midrange jumper was a high percentage shot

1/25/2007 8:13:01 PM

yeah but players used to be white, and the midrange jumper was just as high percentage as a contested layup

Now half the league can touch the top of the backboard. The taller you are and the higher you jump, the harder it is to shoot from distance, with exceptions like Dirk and Robert Horry.

1/25/2007 8:19:29 PM

i think kids would RATHER practice their crossover and slashing game, but its absurd to think its phyiscally harder for someone to shoot because they are tall and can jump high

1/25/2007 8:23:06 PM

Bob Knight hates the 3-pointer....so he approves of this thread.

1/25/2007 8:30:04 PM

its more of a line drive shot when you release from a higher position

a lot of people struggle with that

Not really hard evidence here, but everyone on this list is either under 6 foot 6 or unathletic by NBA standards. Nobody with a 40 inch vertical. All the tall guys are white.

3 point contest winners

* 2006 - Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks
* 2005 - Quentin Richardson, Phoenix Suns
* 2004 - Voshon Lenard, Denver Nuggets
* 2003 - Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento Kings
* 2002 - Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento Kings
* 2001 - Ray Allen, Milwaukee Bucks
* 2000 - Jeff Hornacek, Utah Jazz
* 1999 - Canceled - lockout
* 1998 - Jeff Hornacek, Utah Jazz
* 1997 - Steve Kerr, Chicago Bulls
* 1996 - Tim Legler, Washington Bullets
* 1995 - Glen Rice, Miami Heat
* 1994 - Mark Price, Cleveland Cavaliers
* 1993 - Mark Price, Cleveland Cavaliers
* 1992 - Craig Hodges, Chicago Bulls
* 1991 - Craig Hodges, Chicago Bulls
* 1990 - Craig Hodges, Chicago Bulls
* 1989 - Dale Ellis, Seattle SuperSonics
* 1988 - Larry Bird, Boston Celtics
* 1987 - Larry Bird, Boston Celtics
* 1986 - Larry Bird, Boston Celtics


[Edited on January 25, 2007 at 8:44 PM. Reason : x]

1/25/2007 8:44:18 PM

Q and Allen are about the only ones on the whole list who are athletic by today's standards...but I mean sometimes you'll see somebody like MacGrady, who is tall and can jump, just killing the 3's...i dunno

1/25/2007 8:48:00 PM

Tim Duncan anyone? Dude still uses backboard from the elbows like no one else

1/26/2007 9:53:29 AM

well...in the NBA, big men take middies all the time. If you can't hit the 15 footer, you won't be in the game long.

In general the middie gets more play in the NBA. Players (Gordon, Hamilton, Redd) pull up all the time from 15-20. At the same time, NBA players are really worried about their stats (FG% and PPG) so they are less likely to take the middie even if they are wide open.

That being said it has disappeared more from the college game.

[Edited on January 26, 2007 at 11:08 AM. Reason : .]

1/26/2007 11:05:37 AM

Cause they all want to be the BUS Driver. They want to take everyone to school. They grow up watching dunking and three pointers not watching mid range jumpers.

1/26/2007 11:19:32 AM

The advantage of the 3 point line is it pulls the defense out from packing the lane. A side effect is there is little upside to taking a 15-18 foot shot in HS or college. In NBA and International, the farther 3 point line makes more mid-range jumpers a good shot again (while increasing the difficulty of the 3 ball).

[Edited on January 26, 2007 at 11:27 AM. Reason : .]

1/26/2007 11:27:07 AM

hopefully its something cyclic, people will start to relize they can drive and pull up and hit a midrange shot while the defender thinks they are driving to the hole. I give it 10 years before everybody is using this.

The movement will start on the streets and work its way up

1/26/2007 11:27:54 AM

The jump stop and floater are still around, it's just the ~15-18 feet that are less common, and I imagine the percentages support that.

(1-14 foot FG %) x 2 > (15-18 foot FG %) x 2
(19'9" FG %) x 3 > (15-18 foot FG %) x 2

1/26/2007 11:35:31 AM

hasnt been a factor since Horace Grant

1/26/2007 12:02:55 PM

^haha whenever I'd see Horace play in person (with the Bulls, or especially the Magic) my classic line to yell at him was "HARVEY'S BETTER!"

1/26/2007 1:26:34 PM

I blame a lot of it on the coaching.

Many coaches expect you to pass ten times before the offense gets set up or a shot is taken (or any other rediculous thing like that). They discourage any contested shot, always preferring that the ball goes low or goes to an open player.

It's very difficult to be open for a midrange jumper, especially with a lot of college teams playing zone defense. Athletic players can rise up and get the shot up, but if it's not made, he can expect to get yelled out by his coach for taking a contested shot.

I think you need more NBA coaches in the college ranks to help make the game better.

1/26/2007 1:40:18 PM

zones hinder mid range. It is good strategy to take the ball to the rack and try and get to the free throw line. Why take a lower percentage shot that is worth less? If i am going to shoot the ball from 16 ft, I might as well take the shot from a few feet back that is worh 50% more. seems like common sense to me.

Rip is a good long range shooter too. If D Wade developed a 3 instead of the mid range, then he'd be twice the player because he could get to the rim easier. (though he's already the 2nd best at this in the league)

1/26/2007 3:04:35 PM

you all think the lack of true big men (read, 6'11" - 7'0" low post players that could draw zone/downlow defense) is affecting this as well? I completely agree a zone forces more outside shots but if more teams had legit centers instead of 6'9" true power forwards the defenses would have to stay at home more, opening up midrange opportunities

1/26/2007 3:11:35 PM

I have mastered the hook shot

1/26/2007 4:56:02 PM

I have mastered the mid range hook shot. It is unstoppable.

1/26/2007 6:44:19 PM